Kevin: We never talked about whether you were ripping these outlines up or whether you were ripping.

Lindsey: When I said they'd be around, like, see, I would never sit at a table like this. [um hm] It would always be on the floor, with, like I would be sitting right here. [um hm] And these would be spread all the way around me. [um hm] So that when I get into a situation where I'm like, "okay, I'm talking about, you know, her, the feminine ideal sets woman up as an object" [um hm] I've got papers all around me, [okay] so I can just be like "object," "object," "object," "who is that guy [who wrote about woman as object]?" And I would have been so immersed in the research. [um hm] Or the, you know, reading other people's research, that I would have just been able to put my hands on it. And I would have picked it up and said "okay."